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标题: Tired Ship 《疲惫的航船》 [土耳其]迪莱克•德哥里（苏菲汉译） [打印本页]

作者: 苏菲 时间: 2015-8-23 16:32
标题: Tired Ship 《疲惫的航船》 [土耳其]迪莱克•德哥里（苏菲汉译）
Tired Ship 《疲惫的航船》 [土耳其]迪莱克•德哥里（苏菲汉译）《广场诗刊》1期

[Turkey] Dilek Değerli
Tired Ship

Window was opened to indoors
the night was a black swan
Tired of melancholy she silenced
the silence of her eyes,
the spider which waked up
damaged its net.
Lost times were crying
outside of the window.
The ship stood out to butterfly sea
absorbing the night to her eyes,
her hair flew to the darkness
with the sound of dancing waves.
The strings of life was going
seperately in water way.
As it was getting wet
the cold wound was a shadow
that was curling to its inside.
Anymore the ship only wants to stop
to make waves tired
and to be a crocodile made of rock
in the tongue of night, somewhat acrid.

(Translated by Dilek Degerli)

[土耳其]迪莱克•德哥里
《疲惫的航船》

窗子一直开到舱内
夜晚是只黑天鹅
她沉默不语，厌倦了悲哀
沉默的余光里
一只蜘蛛突然醒来
捣毁了自己的网
窗外，逝去的时光
在哭泣
航船在海里蝶泳
把整个夜晚纳入眼底
秀发飘舞在漆黑的夜里
海浪声声舞蹈
生活之弦已奏响
在水路里，分离
就像此弦，渐渐被打湿
冰冷的伤口是个幻影
正向体内卷缩
这艘船，不想再航行，只想停下来
让浪花疲惫
做一条石头鳄鱼
在夜晚的舌尖上，有点，辛辣

（迪莱克•德哥里英译苏菲汉译）

作者: 苏菲 时间: 2015-8-23 16:34
苏菲翻译 [土耳其]女诗人迪莱克•德哥里的诗 Tired Ship 《疲惫的航船》

作者: 叶如钢 时间: 2015-8-23 22:26
欣赏优美的翻译。一首很生动形象的诗。
期望多来赐稿和指导。问候！

作者: 蒲必达 时间: 2015-8-23 23:22
"The ship stood out to butterfly sea" does not seem to make sense. Suppose butterfly is a verb as the Chinese translation indicates, and we replace it with the more common verb "swim", does "The ship stood out to swim sea" sounds OK?

作者: 叶如钢 时间: 2015-8-24 02:05

蒲必达发表于 2015-8-23 23:22
"The ship stood out to butterfly sea" does not seem to make sense. Suppose butterfly is a verb as th ...

Split (a piece of meat) almost in two and spread it out flat

作者: 蒲必达 时间: 2015-8-24 06:45

叶如钢发表于 2015-8-24 02:05
Split (a piece of meat) almost in two and spread it out flat

你写的与我问的 ("The ship stood out to butterfly sea") 有什么关系？

作者: 叶如钢 时间: 2015-8-24 10:09

蒲必达发表于 2015-8-24 06:45
你写的与我问的 ("The ship stood out to butterfly sea") 有什么关系？

butterfly 的一个用法。这里就是这个用法。

作者: 蒲必达 时间: 2015-8-24 10:34

叶如钢发表于 2015-8-24 10:09
butterfly 的一个用法。这里就是这个用法。

你的这个解释也是辞典里的唯一解释，可以解释得通。但是和中文翻译不一致。butterfly 的确是游泳的一种形式，但是活用成动词我还没见过，特别是在翻译文字里一般不会出现这种新颖的用法。并且蝶泳是游泳里最费力气的一种游法，上下扑腾，水花四溅，和把水切成两半的比较静谧的意向有很大的不同。

“to butterfly sea” 在语法上似乎也不通，sea 前面需要一个定冠词或者不定冠词。诗里面是有省略的现象，但是也不是随便省略，也要符合习惯。再说，这又不是格律诗，没必要省略。

作者: 叶如钢 时间: 2015-8-24 10:47
本帖最后由叶如钢于 2015-8-24 10:48 编辑

蒲必达发表于 2015-8-24 10:34
你的这个解释也是辞典里的唯一解释，可以解释得通。但是和中文翻译不一致。butterfly 的确是游泳的一种形 ...

我并非意在批评你关于蝶泳的点评。而是指出这里的正确解释。

go to sea once more
off to sea once more
go to sea no more

这些都是英语里的说法。作者估计是依据这些。当然，这里最好加上定冠词。
不知这里用的是原作，还是英语翻译。

作者: 蒲必达 时间: 2015-8-24 13:14

叶如钢发表于 2015-8-24 10:47
我并非意在批评你关于蝶泳的点评。而是指出这里的正确解释。

go to sea once more

有没有定冠词都是英语里的说法，只是这两种表达方式所代表的意思不一样。参见：

http://forum.wordreference.com/threads/go-to-the-bed-sea.340315/

作者: 叶如钢 时间: 2015-8-24 13:31
标题: native
本帖最后由叶如钢于 2015-8-24 13:42 编辑

蒲必达发表于 2015-8-24 13:14
有没有定冠词都是英语里的说法，只是这两种表达方式所代表的意思不一样。参见：

http://forum.wordref ...

This is obvious.

But "go to sea" and  "go to bed" etc are very special.  They are basically only for the verb "go".  For example, "cut bed" is not used.  One says "cut the bed". One can also say "cut beds".

On the other hand, we do allow poets some freedom.  Let's say "butterfly sea" is allowed.
Then one can use either "butterfly the sea" or "butterfly sea" in this poem.  However, the poem
starts with a specific scene. For that reason, I think it is better to use "butterfly the sea".

Please note that the English translator of the original poem does not seem to be a native
English speaker. The word "the" may also have been there initially, but left out unintentionally.
So I'd like to improve the English translation by adding "the".

作者: 苏菲 时间: 2015-8-24 14:26
谢谢各位大师的意见！这是从土耳其语翻译成英语的文本！苏菲从英语翻译成汉语的。请多多指教！

苏菲（Sophy Chen)

作者: 苏菲 时间: 2015-8-24 14:30

叶如钢发表于 2015-8-23 22:26
欣赏优美的翻译。一首很生动形象的诗。
期望多来赐稿和指导。问候！

谢谢朋友帮苏菲把这首诗放到翻译版面。我操作不熟悉呀！

作者: 苏菲 时间: 2015-8-24 14:30

蒲必达发表于 2015-8-23 23:22
"The ship stood out to butterfly sea" does not seem to make sense. Suppose butterfly is a verb as th ...

Thanks Sir！

作者: 叶如钢 时间: 2015-8-24 14:51

苏菲发表于 2015-8-24 14:26
谢谢各位大师的意见！这是从土耳其语翻译成英语的文本！苏菲从英语翻译成汉语的。请多多指教！

苏菲（So ...

多谢苏菲君！
苏菲君谦虚。
交流，互相学习。

作者: 叶如钢 时间: 2015-8-24 14:53

苏菲发表于 2015-8-24 14:30
谢谢朋友帮苏菲把这首诗放到翻译版面。我操作不熟悉呀！

啊，不是我移的。可能是张无为编委吧。谢谢他。

作者: 苏菲 时间: 2015-8-24 18:29
谢谢你们两个呀！

作者: 蒲必达 时间: 2015-8-24 19:29

苏菲发表于 2015-8-24 14:26
谢谢各位大师的意见！这是从土耳其语翻译成英语的文本！苏菲从英语翻译成汉语的。请多多指教！

苏菲（So ...

不敢指教，只是举手提问，希望得到苏菲老师的回答。

两个问题：Butterfly 的意思；Sea or the sea.

作者: 山水如歌 时间: 2015-12-11 21:16
诗歌翻译难!
用汉语散文翻译用汉语写的诗都会出歧义，何况经过几种语言中转。
这首诗的原文好像是这样的:
--------------------------------------------------------------
Açıldı içeriye pencere
siyah bir kuğuydu gece,

gözlerindeki suskunluğu
susturdu hüzün yorgunu,
düşe yazan örümcek
ağını bozdu.

Ağlıyordu kayıp zamanlar
pencerenin dışında.

Gözlerinin içine çekip geceyi
açıldı gemi kelebek denizine,
kanayan köklerini kesen kaktüs gibi
döktü cinnetini ormanın üstüne.

Ayrı ayrı gidiyordu
hayatın ipleri sudan yolda
ıslandıkça içine kıvrılan
bir gölgeydi soğuk yara.

Zamanın çivili dilinde
gemi artık yalnızca durmak
durup dalgayı yormak,
kayadan yontulmuş
bir şiir olmak istiyor.
--------------------------------------------------------------

作者: 山水如歌 时间: 2015-12-11 21:25
Gözlerinin içine çekip geceyi
açıldı gemi kelebek denizine,
kanayan köklerini kesen kaktüs gibi
döktü cinnetini ormanın üstüne.
----->
The ship stood out to butterfly sea
absorbing the night to her eyes,
her hair flew to the darkness
with the sound of dancing waves.
The strings of life was going
seperately in water way.

好像作者自己做的"名词对名词"翻译:
kelebek --> butterfly
denizine --> sea

英语中也有名词作名词的定语的，比如: flowers sea, sans sea

作者: 叶如钢 时间: 2015-12-12 06:37

山水如歌发表于 2015-12-11 21:25
Gözlerinin içine çekip geceyi
açıldı gemi kelebek denizine,
kanaya ...

多谢贴上土耳其语原作。

在土耳其语里，定冠词是通过词尾变化表现出来的。
deniz 是 sea，而 denizine 则是 the sea

作者: 叶如钢 时间: 2015-12-12 06:52
本帖最后由叶如钢于 2015-12-12 07:02 编辑

山水如歌发表于 2015-12-11 21:25
Gözlerinin içine çekip geceyi
açıldı gemi kelebek denizine,
kanaya ...

在土耳其语里，联动词组的顺序是反过来的。例如“去工作”是 işe git, 即 work go, 而不是 git işe (go work).
从这个角度来看， kelebek （butterfly）应当是作为名词使用的，而不是作为动词使用。

土耳其有 Butterfly Valley, 是一个狭窄的海湾，两面是山。也许 the butterfly sea 是指那里的海。

作者: 苏菲 时间: 2015-12-12 22:55
谢谢朋友！

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